Members in attendance: Sally Hensley-Granite Mt. Riders & Horsing Around, Carol Ross-Prescott Saddle Club, Bruce McKeeman-Prescott Outings Club, Gary Worob-Yavapai Trails Assoc., Cathy Schultz-Yavapai Trails Assoc. & Back Country Horsemen, Jason Williams-Prescott National Forest, Susan Johnson-Prescott National Forest, George Sheats, Yavapai Trails Assoc. & Open Space Alliance, Spike Hicks-Back Country Horsemen, Brooke Weitkunat-Prescott Mt. Bike Alliance, Karen Moseley- Horsing Around
Trail Safety Ambassador Program: Jason has taken oversight of the program. Trail
Ambassadors will be on same level as Adopt A Trail Volunteers. Karen M. will coordinate with
Tony Papa, NFS, on training and the creation of a vest identifying the volunteers.
PTSC’s liability exposure in the event PTSC wished to participate in parades such as the
Prescott Frontier Days was discussed. Yavapai Trails Association indicated PTSC would be covered under their umbrella policy. Participation & a parade banner will be discussed at the next meeting.
A draft of the revised PTSC trail safety brochure was reviewed and edited. The brochure will
be revised as suggested and submitted for printing.
Bike events: PNF will inform PTSC by email on upcoming events. Brooke advised that the
Prescott Gravity Trail Coalition is a sub group of PMBA. There will be a meeting between FS
personnel & the Gravity Trail group on 2/14/2017.
YTA members discussed various grant proposals for safety ID's and signs on the Circle
Earth Day is April 22, 2017 and will be sponsored by the Open Space Alliance and YTA.
PTSC Chairperson: Sally agreed to keep the position for 2017. New chair to be nominated for
Greater Prescott Trails Alliance: Jason has been authorized to prioritize
70 miles of new trails and new trail heads and improvements. The 5 year plan is to start with a re-route of the Ranch Trail. Emmanual Pines will have equestrian trails to avoid those trails designed more for bicycles.
11.Christina McCarthy or Sally will call for a check from Back Country Horsemen for the brochures as soon as publishing costs are finalized.
12.Next meeting will be March 27th at Prescott FS office.
Meeting adjourned 8:25PM.
Minutes submitted by Spike Hicks, Back Country Horsemen
PTSC Meeting Minutes
- The meeting began with introductions since there were some new members.
- Review of November 2015 minutes. Sally made a motion to approve; Spike seconded the motion.
- Denny’s memorial will be on January 22, 2016, in Chino Valley from 2-4 pm at a Baptist church. The new chair will send out the specific location.
- IMBA Trail Crew will be in Prescott Valley February 4-6. Brooke explained the purpose of the trail crew. The workshop is open to all trail users and is a free event. Sign up online at IMBA.com/TrailCrew. Jason reiterated how good the last IMBA Trail Crew visit was and encouraged all trail users to take part.
- The City of Prescott Valley will be holding a public meeting on January 12 at 6 pm to discuss trail development in the Glassford Hill area. Go to pv.com for more information.
- PMBA will be holding its community night on January 13 at the Boys and Girls Club. All are invited. PMBA board members will be sharing what PMBA has done last year and what is planned for 2016.
- Brooke reviewed for new PTSC members what some of the major projects are as mentioned in the November 2015 meeting minutes:
- Brochures – PTSC will have their info embedded into the Whiskey Off Road brochures. The info must be to Epic Rides by March 18. Sarah mentioned that PTSC will also get more exposure since the brochure is online.
- Trail Safety Ambassador Program – Sally reviewed the purpose and mission of this program and emphasized that it is a goodwill position. Due to illness, Adriane at the PNF Office has not had time to review the submitted proposal. Jason mentioned that not much happened during December and that there will be a volunteer coordinator meeting later in January. He expressed appreciation for our patience in getting this program up and running.
- Bells on Bikes – Brooke explained the purpose of the bells on bikes initiative. Sarah mentioned getting hike shops and bike shops involved in this effort. Brooke then added that a PMBA board member (the bike shop liaison) will be going to local bike shops with Jason to ask them to give a bell to new bike purchasers and to promote bell usage among their patrons. The possibility of horsemen to use whistles was brought up. Jason then discussed earbuds and said that is discouraged, but if you must listen to music, then you should only use one. He further mentioned that we should be using word of mouth to spread the message that “bells are cool” and that we should be educating everyone on trail safety and etiquette.
- Horse Sensitivity Training – This is an activity that helps with desensitizing horses. If any horse groups want to do this, let PMBA know, and we will provide bikers.
- New Officers – Due to the low attendance at the November meeting, it was decided that this should be postponed to the January meeting. We will do this later in this meeting.
- Jason handed out some data about trail use from the Thumb Butte and White Spar trail counters as well as the Williamson Valley camera from the past two months.
- Goals were set for 2016:
- Addressing dog issues
- PTSC booths at outdoor events
- Improving the reporting system on the PTSC website, including a QR code to report incidents and trail conditions
- Outreach to motorized groups
- Sally discussed a 4 ft high fence and 2 very large dogs along a trail near American Ranch (American Rang Trail and Tin Trough Trail). This is a Yavapai County easement. She was told to talk to the county, American Ranch, and the property owners about the aggressive dogs.
- Jason discussed having a trail condition monitor.
FEBRUARY 15, 2012
There is concern about HOW the Institute will deal with the various trail user groups. PSTC felt we had already “closed the door” on separating the groups where as the Institute wants to break the groups up into one-on-one sessions.
Betty Matthews noted it was better to cooperate with the Institute so they can get the “big picture” of how we get along and how we are working together to solve problems.
Betty noted her FS background of 23 years and that she has worked with the Institute before and felt them to be pro-active vacillators when dealing with collaborative issues between user groups.
There was a lengthily discussion that the PTSC has already been a model for conflict resolution and has a history already of coming up with many solutions, actions plans, and activities to address the issues of the non-motorized, multi-user groups in the PNF. It was noted that groups and specific persons have been invited to join the PTSC so their specific issues, concerns and suggestions to correct the conflict between groups would be heard and recognized.
PTSC also acknowledged that, now, the motorized trail users are also having safety issues and will, form now on, be included in the PTSC group
Betty continued to urge the PTSC to bring in the Institute to build a design for all the get together and build upon what the PTSC has already be doing.
Betty described a possible scenario of how the Institute might work.
- The five groups would be put into each of their own discussion group. (Listening sessions.)
- The small group opposing bikers on the trails.
3. From the Collaborative group, actions plans would be designed.
4. The actions plans would be what the people/public support when thinking about the “bigger picture” of the PNF usage. Then those actions plans would be assigned to which ever group would be responsible for their implementation.
The Listening Sessions will be conducted by the facilitator to give people a “safe place” to talk, without fear off intimidation, or of not being heard and would feel free to state what their issues are, what their solutions are, and list what they want to talk about in the larger collaborative group.
The Collaborative session will be facilitated by the Institute leaders so emotions won’t take over and all voices will be heard.
It was again noted that the PTSC has already been implementing many action plans and have even developed a time-line to accomplish specific tasks. (Noted was the web site.)
A discussion about the intake of information not being equitable, i.e. the small group vs the larger group, will give the small group more say than the larger group already working on issues. Information will be weighted in favor of the small group. No conclusion was drawn from this discussion except to be cautious.
Jason W. noted that the inclusion of new people’s experiences and ideas the better it will reduce fears and make progress more solid. Then it will be harder to “drop the ball” and not finish the work. Also, with group collaboration it will be easier to support each other out when signing on for grants.
PTSC can not use the universal stop sign symbol or colors. A circle using yellow and black will be okay. Diana N will develop a new design still listing all the user groups around the edge.
PNF now has Limited Sight signs and Slow signs ready to be put on the trails. Jason will be asking for volunteers to help him put them in.
Jason noted when he is out on the trails he makes personal contact with anyone he meet and takes the time to talk to them about trail safety issues. He encouraged all to do the same.
Plans were made to contact and talk to relevant shop owners and ask them to talk to their customers. Especially regarding head phones and ear buds. If one must use them , then use only one ear piece.
The motorized group will be invited to the next PTSC meeting.
MEETING ADJORNED with PTSC letting Betty know that we will completely cooperate with
her efforts in utilizing the UECRI to work with the PNF and all groups involved in the trail use conflict.
Trail Users Meeting 1/5/12
I. Introduced three new people: Bruce McKeeman fo the Presscott Outing Club. Jim Gilsdorf, the new Chino Valley District Ranger, and Jim Higgs, from the BCHCAZ and also on the national Board of the BCHA.
II. Higgs said the national BCHA is studying the biker/rider/ safety issues on a national level. He is asking anyone who has had a safety issue on the trails to please send him a report stating all the details. He is collecting thes reports to send in to national BCHA who is collecting data from all the states.. His e mail is email@example.com
BCHA is looking into what the FS is doing on all public lands regarding this issue. BCHA is sepecially keeping an eye on the PNF and the PTSC as a possible model to share with other state BCH chapters. The national meeing will be in Eugene, OR this year and they plan to discuss this issue. Also the IMBA has approached BCHA asking BCHA to help support them in allowing mtn bikes in the wilderness areas.The NFS is looking into the further demands of the mtn bikers for Pump Trails and other special needs track, especially for speed techniques. For the FS it is a capacity need and where to put specific trails and planning for the next three to five years
III. The Sign:The octagon shape sign (stop sign) and the color red can not be used. Red is only for “stop”. The requirements for shape and color are in the Signing Manuel for theFederal Hwy and Trail Requirements. What can be used:Color: Black and yellow for warning signs.Shapes: Circle, square, rectangle, diamond.PTSC wants to keep the text in the center and the organizations listed on the edges. Note: need to add Prescott Outing Club.The sign below listing the cautions, ie. head phones, etc., is still good.Denny Murray will check to see if Karen Fann’s company will donate the signs.
IV. Trails:TR #332 needs better sinage and brushing where it croxxed Iron S[pg. Road.TR #347 still need a by-pass location for equestrians.
V. Special Rides:The third weekend will be an Endurance Ride for equestrians.The last weekend in April is the Whisky Row Ride for bikers.The dates of these rides need to be published in the PTSC web site as well as each coalition group’s web site.
VI. The new city maps are out and well accepted by the PTSC. The PNF will get some to have available at the FS offices.
VII. Conflict Resolution Meeting:Betty Matthews reported that a group of eight met with her seeking specific regulations for the mtn bikers and for the separation of trails. The FS has contacted the L.K. Udahl Foundation of Tuson that specializes in conflect resolutions between groups.This is a government organization set up for environmental conflict resolution issues. Betty wants PSTC and all interested user groups of non-motorized trails to meet with this Conflict Resolution Group. The NFS has used this group before and found the experience to be very successful. We will be informed when the meeting will be.We all agree the issues were about consensus, self regulations, and education
VIII. Action Items:Short: Education for local businesses by providing a handout/pamphlet for them to hand out, as well as the FS offices to hand out. The pamphlet will be designed bye Diana Norris and Brad DeVire. Suggested ideas included “why we meet”, why we care”, what people can do”, “what are the issues involved”, etc., and also include the ne city map to be provided also.Jason will need helpers to put up signage on TR #396.Looking for an equestrian bu-pass on TR # 347 and #396.Leaders of group rides carry whistles for blind corners and warnings.Jason will call for help in locating “slow down” areas, places needing brushing.Re-designing the sign to meet Federal requirements.Developing the pamphlet for businesses.Long: Meeting with the Conflict Resolution Group.
Trail Head Meeting 9/17/11
This past Saturday PMBA invited all of the Equestrian groups out to their group ride. This was also done earlier in the year but, only a small few of the equestrians showed up... not the case this time! The horses out numbered the bikers this time!
We started off by letting everyone know what was happening with the coalition and the things we are trying to work on. We let everyone know about this site so they can read up on what we are doing.
Most of the comments made by the equestrians to the bikers were to let them know you are there. Make some noise as a soon as you see them. A biker asked what should we do once you see us. The answer was to stop and the horse person will let you know what to do, either stay where you are and move off the trail to the downward side, or they will move off and let you pass. Don't go ahead and pass the horse even if they have moved off the trail until the rider says so. Sometimes the horse is still unsure and the rider needs a little more time to calm the horse.
Speed was mentioned.... seemed to be the big topic... we, the PTSC are working on trail 347. The forest service has been out brushing the blind corners and creating better site lines. For the places where speed and no site distance there are discussions on how to slow the biker. The answer seems to be to put a "slowing obstacle" in the trail... this would not impede the trail for other trail users, but slow the biker down to either go over or around thus causing the speed to be reduced.
It was also mentioned who to hold accountable for any accidents. This comment got a lot of attention by everyone. At this time there are a few supporters for fining speeding bikes and for making certain trails bikes only and horse only. While their concerns are valid, there were more supporters for working in cooperation in being courteous to other trail users, keeping all trails open to everyone, and taking on their own inherent responsibility of their choice in riding modes.
It was noted that change doesn't happen over night and trail 347 will be the testing trail to see how these ideas work.
The other major question was how to educate out of town riders... not just bikers but horsemen too. They need to know what we are working on and we have guidelines for how to enjoy our trails.
PMBA is holding a Wonderschlautt bike event October 14-16. Most of the riding events happen on the 15th. Although they don't know how many bikers will show up they have asked the respective Equestrian groups to provide a horse or two at each of the trail heads they are leaving from to help educate the out of town riders.
It was mentioned that the Equestrians and Bikers let their respective shops know what is happening, either with a flyer or someone stopping by to give them the run down. This would be the bike shops and tack shops in town. It seems if someone from out of town comes in they stop at a shop for a map. If we can educate the shops to let them know our trails are multi-use, and to be courteous to everyone, and know who to yield to, this might just make this whole coalition a success!
We feel this was a positive step in the right direction for all involved and we will continue to hold these types of meetings in the future.
Trail Users Meeting Notes 8-16-2011- Chino Valley Ranger District
Attendance: Chris Hoskins (city of Prescott), Debbe Dolson (VP Granite Mtn Riders), Tom and Diana Norris, Denise Stevens, Spike and Carol Hicks, Denny and Sara Murray, Brad DeVries, Joyce Mackin, Brooke Weitkunat (Prescott Mtn Bike Alliance), John Shumaker (Prescott Mtn Bike Alliance), Jason Williams (USFS- Trails Manager), Nancy Walls (Natl Res Staff Off), Linda Jackson (Bradshaw Dist Ranger).
Notes were taken and typed by Sara Murray
In response to equestrians and mountain bikers and hikers concern over trail safety, thirteen trail users and three PNF personnel met at the Chino Valley Ranger Station of discuss the issue of trail safety and brain storm possible and reasonable solutions to address the issue.
Six organizations were represented, also including the City of Prescott. They were Back Country Horsemen, Prescott Mountain Bikers Alliance, Yavapai County Trail Assoc, Prescott Saddle Club, Granite Mountain Riders and the Prescott National Forest. A seventh participate represented the rider that does not belong to any organization.
A history was given of the beginning efforts to address the safety issue on our trails. BCH met with the PMBA beginning May 2010. Several meeting were held including the FS and a meeting of BCH with the PMBA at the Cayuse trail head. Concerns were presented to the City Council twice, after the City Recreational Map was published that made the trails appear to be mountain bike trails. (Note: this map is being revised to include hikers and riders.)
A review of the three most recent accidents was discussed. From this discussion it evolved into the conditions and the type of trails that are conducive to accidents...as blind corners, places to get off the trail, poor line of sight, need of brushing, etc.
Everyone agreed that a collaboration or alliance of concerned trail users was the best approach to the problem and approaching the PNF service with out suggestions. The FS realizes the “push” has to come for the public and will participate in making corrections to the trails.
A list of ideas was decided upon. Signage was the first priority. A new and attention getting sign needs to be at each trail head that states the dangers and the need for courtesy. Blind corner and courtesy signs to be placed out on the trails.
The was discussed how to redesign the trails to make corners safer by placing barriers on the curve that require the biker slow down but does not effect hikers or riders. It was agreed that all groups would inspect the trails, GPS dangerous locations and report to the PNF and help them redesign that part of the trail.
The danger of ear phones was a major concern that would be addressed on the trail head signs and each group educating their members about not using them on the trails.
A Trail Safety Clinic will be planned using biker, hikers and riders. It will be a three day event with the third day out on the trails..
September 17th will be a joint ride meeting at the Williamson Valley Trail Head.
October 15th the PMBA will be holding an event to show case the Prescott Trails. They want BCH to hold another meeting with the horses as was held at the Cayuse Trail Head earlier this year. They will be holding rides at trails 305, 369, Granite Basin and Thumb Butt.
Brad DeVries and Denny Murray will develop a time line for accomplishing the suggestions.
August 19th and September 9th will be days to identify problems on trail 347 with FS. Denise Stevens will begin designing a new sign for the FS. Brook Weitkunat will set up a Google program where Reports of dangerous trail situations can be reported.
Additional items to look into will be asking all the effected groups to post the new signage on their web sites with and explanation of the courtesy rules of yielding, explaining that no one group “owns the trails” and everyone must be conscious of being willing to yield the right-of-way. Also, publishing the sign in the newspaper with an article that will reach all trail users who are not members of an organized group that will explain the same issues to the general public.
A volunteer trail patrol system is being discussed with the PNF and seeing how one may fit into
One of the volunteer programs that the FS already has in place. PMBA has already begun to define a patrol program for the bikers. Equestrian groups need to look into the same program for the riders.
It was noted that there are safety issues with all user groups that need to be addresses. Such as the endurance rider and joggers who uses the trails for training and conditioning, the hikers who carry sticks or go off the trail and return unexpectedly.
The collation group agreed to continue meeting until safety is a normal and natural part of the enjoyment of the used of our forest and wilderness trails.